Curse

Witte Was · Jun 14, 2007, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Why_Me

ouch, sort of ironic since the only PvE characters I have are an ele and a warrior, oh well, goodbye PvE chars

@splatter
Quite honestly, it doesn't really matter if witte's builds get nerfed (no offense). They are not for profit, they are for challenges. Likewise, I doubt ANet cares if everyone is doing some amazing thing solo if it is dead slow and isn't breaking the economy (like sweat shop farming builds)

You're right about that. Most of my builds are for the challenge like my Full Tyria Solo Tour but they won't nerf that. The only things I'm afraid of are my W/Rt UW Run and W/Rt FoW Run. (and maybe also my Experience Farm) because these are profitable. A well..maybe I'm going for profit in stead of challenge later

Div · Jun 14, 2007, 05:44 AM // 05:44

I love how scrubs look at the skill balance and immediately blame everything on PvP. Seriously, PvP could careless about stoneflesh aura or 80%+ of the crap skills they changed. Anet wants to fix their shit economy, so they're making some of the builds harder to play. Quit whining just because your overpowered skills are becoming less powerful.

Elite Bushido · Jun 14, 2007, 06:24 AM // 06:24

^^then they need to fix the drops in both modes if they want to help the economy

blue.rellik · Jun 14, 2007, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Uh wow Splatter. You're blaming Witte for all the skill nerfs because he shares how he makes money?

:/

Do you get angry at people in real life that give money away and whatnot?

manitoba1073 · Jun 14, 2007, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I love how scrubs look at the skill balance and immediately blame everything on PvP. Seriously, PvP could careless about stoneflesh aura or 80%+ of the crap skills they changed. Anet wants to fix their shit economy, so they're making some of the builds harder to play. Quit whining just because your overpowered skills are becoming less powerful.

Wow some more funny things PvPers say. There should be some tv show about them.

Because it was really nerfed for PvP not PvE hate to tell you. And now Anerf is reconsidering it because they didnt think it through on it effects, spank you very much.

My War Can Solo Everythin · Jun 14, 2007, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Honestly, i re-installed gw recently, to have some fun.
If they nerf armor staking and stoneflesh aura....
If they do this nerf i uninstal gw and waste installation cd's. Promise.

I HAVE ENOUGH THAT THEY NERF WARRIORS AND NOT THAT OVERPOWERED 55HP, JESUS CHRIST.

Fishmonger · Jun 15, 2007, 04:34 PM // 16:34

what I'm seeing from these silly PVPers is that unless it is HA or GvG, it should not exist. And to that, I have 3 questions:

1. Just because you can run creative builds in RA/TA/AB unlike in HA or GvG, they shouldn't exist?

2. What are these PvP zealots doing in the farming forum anyways? go back to your gladiator's arena and quit going to PvE threads just to flame.

3. How can you NOT think PvP decides at least 9 out of 10 nerfs? Open your eyes, and look at mesmers and paragons just to begin with. Rits are even going to be nerfed soon due to constant HA abuse of channeling.

Finally, I don't want a game for "farming coconuts." I want a game that doesn't give nerfs to one side because the other side thinks it's unfair. PvP is the spoiled child in GW.

TheOneMephisto · Jun 15, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishmonger

what I'm hearing from these silly PVPers is that unless it is HA or GvG, it should not exist. And to that, I have 3 questions:

1. Just because you can run creative builds in RA/TA/AB unlike in HA or GvG, they shouldn't exist?

Balance isn't decided by RA/TA/AB because of the fact that they aren't competitive. RA and AB it doesn't really matter simply because you can't control the other 3 people, and TA has such a low level of competition that even moderately skilled people running a balanced builds can roll most of the imbalanced shit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishmonger

2. What are these PvP zealots doing in the farming forum anyways? go back to your gladiator's arena and quit going to PvE threads just to flame.

I saw it on the "last post" thing while I was scrolling down to the Glad's Arena, and I decided that I might as well try and clear up some misconceptions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishmonger

3. How can you NOT think PvP decides at least 9 out of 10 nerfs? Open your eyes, and look at mesmers and paragons just to begin with. Rits are even going to be nerfed soon due to constant HA abuse of channeling.

PvP does decide probably more than 90% of the nerfs, however, the fact is that we deserve the nerfs simply due to the nature of the game. If PvE is a problem, ANet can change area balance, AI, mob structure, etc. etc. Also, if something is imbalanced in PvE, guess what, the mobs get slaughtered, and they aren't complaining.

However, PvP is a much higher upkeep gametype. The primary goal in PvP is to have multiple, versatile, and skill-based templates. We want the majority of builds to have skills and templates that scale with skill, and are bad in the hands of a bad player and good in the hands of a good player. Otherwise, you get stuff like rit spammers and paragon shout spammers, where all they have to do is drop spirits way in the backline or sit in the midline with over 130 armor shouting. These templates are just about the same with any skill level (how hard is it to press numbers all day?), and therefore are bad for the game. It isn't necessarily that passive skills are that bad, but they should be worse than an active skill in the hands of a good player.

I don't think that PvE really has this problem. If PvE had a skill that automatically made all enemy mobs target you (Aka tanking-for-retards button), everyone would be happy and people would use it (like the old SF bundle tanking). However, if PvP has skills that are basically easy-mode for things and make it so that even bad players can do well (like SF = easy pressure, Paragons/old-school rit spammers = easy defense, Recall/SoH = easy splitting), suddenly the game doesn't get fun. Improving is worthless, because you don't need to improve, and the game gets turned into a rock-paper-scissors game.

The point is that in PvP, these templates are fine. Easy-mode buttons are needed to keep some level of casual-players. However, these easy-mode buttons have to be worse than medium-high level players playing balanced builds, which will allow the truly skilled players to rise to the top while the gimmicks are left battling each other for fun at the bottom. This isn't happening, and passive stuff like paragon armor shouts are way too powerful, basically making the game unfun (which would be why so many PvPers have quit).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishmonger

Finally, I don't want a game for "farming coconuts." I want a game that doesn't give nerfs to one side because the other side thinks it's unfair. PvP is the spoiled child in GW.

How would you think that PvP is the spoiled child? All we want are a couple gametypes, a couple balanced maps, and some skills balance. In fact, most of the people I know would be happy if PvP was left at the level of prophecies or possibly early-factions.

In comparison, PvE is constantly getting updates and additions. I know that this is kind of required for a PvE game, simply because players need new things to do. However, you guys are getting much more than PvPers. I mean, all we get with each new campaign are a bunch of skills and new classes that we don't want either way. In contrast, you guys get a whole new campaign to play through, new high-level areas, tons of new gear and shit to collect, etc. You guys get updates like SF to keep you occupied in between expansions. You get special events every weekend (most of the PvP special events are just bad, trust me, they make things worse). You get holiday celebrations and junk (I don't even have a PvE character to take place if I wanted to). You get stuff like hardmode.

I mean, all we want is some balance, and you get constant updates and additions to your gameplay. I know that the core of PvE is new content to go through, but the core of PvP play is also simply balance, and once we have balance and maybe a couple tournaments we're good to go. And don't even mention ATs, as those have pretty-much destroyed ladder play and are basically pretty horrible.

LifesRestorer · Jun 15, 2007, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Guild vs Guild. hence the name of the game, GUILD WARS. this was intended to be the pinnacle of the game, and it will remain that way. i enjoy both aspects of the game. stop pissing and moaning just cause you can't farm until your eyes bleed and the market corrupts.

to the above poster: an annoyign build that doesnt do damage and is impossible to kill without the use of enchant strips or interrupts doesnt belong in a PvP arena. it is not creative. it's lame.

TheOneMephisto · Jun 15, 2007, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

to the above poster: an annoyign build that doesnt do damage and is impossible to kill without the use of enchant strips or interrupts doesnt belong in a PvP arena. it is not creative. it's lame.

I have never played a build that wasn't capable of killing an earth tank as long as I had some support (as in the other 3 people?). If you don't have any enchant strips, interrupts, KDs, enough pressure, or caster shutdown in a team of 4 people then you should probably go again either way.

BTW, I never said that it was creative or that it wasn't lame. It obviously isn't creative, how hard is it to think of? All you need to do is even know the skill descriptions for some earth skills and mystic regen and it's a DUH thing. It is lame because it takes no skill and does nothing. However, I don't think that it being prevalent in RA is a big problem, as RA is... RA. Take it how it should be taken, very lightly. As others have said, the only reason you play RA (besides synching) is to watch others learn exciting, innovative new ways to fail (or to faction farm, if you have that kind of patience).

So do I think that the build is stupid and lame and skill-less, yes. Do I think that it should exist? I don't really care either way. You can do a lot more griefing with a well-build runner build than that either way.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

Guild vs Guild. hence the name of the game, GUILD WARS. this was intended to be the pinnacle of the game, and it will remain that way. i enjoy both aspects of the game. stop pissing and moaning just cause you can't farm until your eyes bleed and the market corrupts.

That argument always pissed me off. It just doesn't say anything useful. Guild Wars occupies 2 niches in the (very crowded) MMORPG market, a no-subscription PvE, and a competitive (or at least the potential, not showing it very well right now) PvP. Especially since ANet has recently been pouring many more resources into non-GvG related stuff (HvH and PvE), they really aren't trying to balance PvP, and all the hype about GW:EN and GW2, it sure looks like they're aiming for the first niche.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Jun 15, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

I do RA and AB alot I get tired of going to HA and finding the same build used over and over and no one wanting to run a new build, my guild is small and doesn't HA much so I can't rely on them for any help, I got tired of AB after a while. I have to agree with one of the above posters PVP doesn't get really much of anything besides nerfs. PVE gets almost everything else. Farming nerfs I think are a good idea because it starts to weed out the weak farmers who beg a build off of someone and don't think of any new builds. I do farm a lot as well.

Nkah Sennyt · Jun 15, 2007, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Watch the flames, and don't feed the trolls.

Solus Spartan · Jun 16, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12

The intendedPvpnerfswhichactuallyaffectedpveashitloadm ore are in.

andrewf · Jun 16, 2007, 02:28 AM // 02:28

I'm sure in terms of EXP.... They'll nerf the Margonite run before Witte's

Levi Garett · Jun 16, 2007, 04:17 AM // 04:17

How bout we keep the pvp vs pve arguements out of the FARMING sub-forum? Since farming is pve afterall.